ocd..

[ghost]

i don't know how many with ad have ocd..
but it runs in my family..
my son has it mildly.. pulls out his hair a bit without noticing..
has to have all his ducks in a row, superorganized to the point of having to give away his spare change simply to be 'even'..
i had it more pronounced in childhood.. i had to do all kinds of little things to also keep things 'even' you could say.. ritual prayers and counting, doing all kinds of things backwards and forwards.. etc.. sure that bad things were happening because i'd slipped up on my prayers or some such thing..

one of my sisters is always checking the stove and locks in her house for fear of some catastrophe.. it all seems to be related to our anxiety troubles.. so i can't sort out if it is nature or nurture..
i mean it seems to be in the dna, and yet worse with us kids than our parents, so i think the insecure environment growing up makes it worse? stress seems to aggravate it..

my oldest sister had it the worst, washing and counting and all kinds of odd little tics that she couldn't stop doing... she would wash her hands till they bled..

anyway, i think it plays a big part in my eating disorder, as well as my fears of ingesting medicines.. both of which also seem to be about my mistrust.. of people and whether or not they'll harm me.. just like the ad..
i've read that people with ad have a tremendous amount of difficulty trusting not just others, but authority figures in particular.. that's me to a t.

lately i'm having such fear of meds that i am going through so much panic it's ridiculous.. just taking tylenol for pain all the time for my migraines has become an ocd issue.. i count the hours since the last dose over and over and still cannot trust that i'm right, afraid i'll take too much and make myself worse.. i count over and over and can hardly bring myself to swallow them no matter how much pain i'm in.. it's kinda ridiculous..

well, i just thought i'd start an ocd thread in case anyone else comes along that shares this problem..
ghost

[ghost]

yeah, i believe we all do compulsive things or obsess at times..
but it's a spectrum.. it's only a disorder if it gets to the point that you feel like it really interferes with your life.. like you can't get out of your house to do what you want to do.. or walk down the street without rituals slowing you too much..

i'm so used to it.. i'd rather have it than take meds & have side effects..
ghost

[ghost]

thumper..
the whole meds thing is a mixed bag with me..
i realize some really need Something to help with their symptoms.. like my husband with his ADD, or my sister with her schizophrenia.. those people should have their meds if they want them.. but i have a problem with having meds pushed down my throat everywhere i go..

i was never given meds for ocd.. just for anxiety/agoraphobia & depression..

i was sedated for years on tranquilizers that did nothing to help with my anxiety.. even enhanced the depression symptoms and gave me horrendous withdrawls.. i also did the worst si while on xanax as i just kept taking more and more and felt dependent on them despite the fact that they didn't help with the anxiety!
i was also on klonopin which made me nice & high or just plain unconscious most of the time.. but also took away my other emotions.. i never felt better than after i finally got off of that and the withdrawl insomnia ended..

i was started up on zoloft, paxil & prozac which all were like rat poison to my body.. sick as sick could be! plus i heard electric zaps in my brain & thought i was going crazy..
i am leery in the extreme of ads now.. the whole idea behind the marketing was based on a lie (the seratonin imbalance story)..
they are a trade-off of side-effects..
often they simply are making matters worse and bandaiding over/sedating people..

there's an enormous conflict of interest in the psych/pharm business..

in the end i decided if i was going to make myself feel crazy & awful on some drug that it was at least going to be one of my own choice! haha..


so i'm off meds for good and do better that way..

it's an individual choice.. if you find a match with one that alleviates your symptoms and has side-effects you can live with then you're lucky..
i just don't trust being in the psych/pharm's hands anymore..
they've made too many mistakes just in my own experience that i've learned from..

and i still hear such horror stories..
i know it's an ad'er's mantra..
but i just don't trust..


ghost

[sleepflower]

(I know the thread is about OCD really, so don't let me hijack it, but I just had to say this on the issue of meds.)

Ghost, I had the 'electric zaps' in my brain on Paxil! Also on Seroxat... Prozac just turned me into a zombie; stopped me feeling anything at all and stopped me eating completely. So yes, I'm wary of meds too. Plus, as you say, the issue of bandaiding over the problem probably makes it worse.

Thumper, they affected my memory too...probably explains my need for everything to be on a list, but when I was taking them I literally had to write everything down, my memory was so bad.

My other problem is that when the doctor checks up, I tend to feel guilty and just say 'yes, they're fine...' even if the side-effects are killing me, just because I feel like a nuisance and as if I'm wasting their time. (Mind you, I'm like that with therapy too!)

[ghost]

thumper..
i used to have the counting thing so much worse when i was a kid.. i used to have to count to the present year and say alot of prayers and say/think everything frontward & backward or in even numbers.. very tiring!

i don't think you can really just make yourself totally stop these things.. but i do believe you can change them to rituals you prefer doing.. like steer it into things that you consider productive rather than bothersome..
anyway, it has changed so much with me over the years..

ghost

[ghost]

i'm so ocd these days i can't trust anything..
even at a healthy weight/diet i mistrust everything i ingest..
and just taking my measly pain meds has become insane..
it's this 'error detection' malfunction in my brain over and over..
have i made a mistake? double check, make sure, over & over..
then finally what the hell.. if it kills me i'll be glad..
i'm just so tired of pain and chronic mistrust.

ghost

p.s.
this guy's worth reading on the subject of obsession/compulsion..
www.ocdonline.com/

p.p.s.
..but you know everytime i go reading this kinda stuff i feel so dehumanized.
i'm nothing but a fucking disease.

[ghost]

Aug 13, 2008 13:13:35 GMT -5 mandy said:

Sorry to hear your OCD has gotten so bad lately, Ghost. I go through phases where it's sometimes worse than others. My OCD is primarily obsessions though...

thanks!
yeah, i'm mostly a 'pure O' obsessive too..
i guess i'm so used to being that way i never see it as 'rumination' or ocd, but it seems to be.. that's why i feel like i'm just a disease because it's so ME, you know?
it's really obvious to me when i begin the 'checking' kind of ocd so that's what is a red flag when i do it, like with meds and food..

it's not much comfort when that dr says to 'allow the risk & take the anxiety'.. ug.

i try..

ghost

[ghost]

i've never had therapy of any kind for ocd specifically..
one psychologist diagnosed me as ocd..
but the last one i saw never did.. and honestly i didn't talk about it in terms of how obsessive i am/ruminating and fixating on things to the extent i do..
it seemed we had to focus on the ED aspect of it because that was the primary problem.. but she was always trying to get me to try the things i was avoiding, even the things i knew i ought to avoid..

i agree with what that dr said in that most people with ocd have 'insight'.. i.e. know their avoidances/rituals are irrational/exaggerated..
but then there are the things we avoid or do ritually that we Do believe are rational or for a reason.. with my therapist i don't believe she ever trusted me to know the difference, like she thought i avoided meds out of an irrational fear.. not.
i avoided them based on my own very real and traumatic life experiences as a result of taking meds in years past..
that's what i mean when i say all the time i can't trust someone who can't trust me, you know?

when you mention intrusive thoughts.. i don't know if talking it all out is good or not in that case, intrusive thoughts are really scary.. i try to talk them out because i instinctively feel like i need to get a handle on them somehow and having it out in the open seems to help me even though i know i feel great anxiety when i do it.. but then also in a way i need to get past them where i don't focus on them for a long time.. so i get that..

with the example from the book you gave it's easy to use the kind of 'paradox' psychology you mention.. imagine if you were afraid everytime you drove your car that perhaps you hit someone and didn't realize.. if you keep proving yourself wrong at some point you have to face the reality that it's only a fear.. there are no bodies lying in your driveway under the car or blood on the fenders.. time after time of proving the fear wrong has weight.. but that doesn't always work in all situations/scenarios i'm sure..

when i was little i had a similar problem only it was with prayers/rituals.. if i slept on my back i'd have a bad dream, if i forgot a person or cat in my prayers something bad would happen to them because of it.. i believed it because i had such a wealth of bad dreams and bad things happened everyday to my family members & cats.. but if someone had specifically helped me keep track i'm sure the innaccuracies would start to add up..
ocd often proves so irrational as to be easier to logic out..
but when it's avoidance you have to sort it out?

ocd/anxiety/avoidance problems all inherently seem to overlap..
and it's hard to make definite lines between them..

the only way i've found out of anxiety is right through it..
in other words.. have it out and try to work past it..
but i believe in doing it at a pace that you can handle..
like i know there are times i need to retreat.. and times i feel ok and ready to tackle new ground.. that's when i take on something i've avoided.. some new feared food or place..
and it gets easier to do each time with most things..

not sure if this answers your question?

ghost

[ghost]

sorry, i ramble on & probably helped confuse you?


like you said at the end.. it's in the 'long run' it helps..
at first it challenges you to confront the fear/anxiety..
and then you just build up a tolerance to it..
like that dr said also, you can only obsess/worry about so much at a time so you actually 'forget' to worry about some of the things in a way because you are bombarding your brain with new things/things formerly avoided..

it's always good if you can find someone you trust that will realistically help you challenge your possible misperceptions, but when my last therapist told me that i knew it only meant she was trying to push me into meds..

there are good reasons to be cautious in this world, but also good payoffs when we live with an amount of acceptable risk..
it's finding an area in the middle where we can carve out a life, i guess? it's never ever just as simple as the 'meds or get a job' cure.. i've been pushed that so much i think it's just out of their incompetence! haha..

when it came to foods, the exposure method worked.. once i went through my first few panic attacks with each and every new food! i had to do it to survive since i'd been backed into a corner with only basically bread and hot flavored water feeling safe!

but when it comes to people i've done all the exposure.. i've faced it daily and still been pushed back into a corner over and over so exposure in that area 'didn't work' for me either.. but i found ways to be around people and interact less so i could enjoy my life.. and i still prefer to go out with select others whenever i can, but i am able to run errands alone just enough to remain capable..
but one nasty driver can send me back into seclusion..

did i mention on the board here somewhere about that dr oz tv show where he took all those super ocd folks on a field trip/exposure therapy? they literally touched toilets and licked their hands!!!! and did all kinds of horrendous things just to once and for all prove that they'd survive.. we back ourselves so far into our avoidances sometimes that we start to believe we really can't survive reality, but we need to remember we can and will..
but still, isn't it best to go about that with someone there that you can honestly trust? (sadly, i haven't found such a person.. haha..)

you sure aren't alone with your fear of death.. i don't happen to share that one (in fact i love to visit cemeteries and i ruminate about death richly!) but it could be the sense of sudden abandonment/loss.. or is it a fear of your own death? anyway..
you are young and shouldn't have to worry about death for a long time.. you can choose if you want to confront the fear, if you think it's in the way of you doing what you'd like to do.. if not, then why do it? i'm phobic of spiders.. but i feel no need to look through books at pictures of them to conquer the fear.. in fact over time it has gotten easier as i began to realize how much more terrified they are of me than i am of them.. (with good reason too.. 'cause i squash them..) i've actually become sympathetic to them...lol..

ghost